With version 113.0.1, the tab bar is back at the top where I loath having it

[Notsmiling]

With this latest update, the userChrome.css file is either partially or totally ignored. Thus, tab bar is back at the top. When I use Firefox extensively like I do, I develop a muscle memory for where things are. In my opinion, and like many, many other people who agree with me, having the tab bar at the top is completely illogical. I'm sure at this point that Mozilla has received enough negative feedback about having the tab bar at the top that they are aware that this is a problem for a lot of people. One would think that they actually might want to consider making the tab bar location optional in order to keep end users. For example, in my case this is such a huge issue that I'm now looking around for another browser. I simply don't have the time to continually squander on overcoming major paradigm shifts.

[Kenithekid]

I'm with you here!

I was rudely surprised by this with the update this morning. The fact that they removed the function from the program was itself rude. Then updating to changes that stopped 3rd party work arounds for it. Niow the constant battle to keep these setting. They really don't want those tabs where we prefer them! Very sad...

Maybe one of the reasons the news continues to tell us that firefox is losing market share...? They're not paying attention!

Adamant companies translates to business loss. Look at what Waves just did to themselves!

[pweeks]

I am convinced that this is a team of morons that refuses to listen to its users.  Absolutely unbelievable.  Every time I update, I spend more time than I should have to trying to correct crap that they are shoving down our throats.  I am so frustrated with this mess and ready to bail after being a faithful user for decades.

Sure, this is absolutely a (relatively) quick fix for the team, but a deliberate and conscious decision to alienate their core users.  The attraction to Firefox is the users' ability to modify.  Once that is removed, there is no longer any point in using the browser.  Firefox has slipped from 4.21% (Feb. 2022) to 2.93% (Feb. 2023) user share, and continues to decline, perhaps out of existence, with Google Chrome taking the lion's share of use (66.76% Feb. 2023).  While core users continue to support Firefox, its developers have not just abandoned us, but have deliberately thwarted our efforts to be productive on our own terms.  I fear for the relevance and continued existence of Firefox under the current circumstances.  Listening to your users is KEY to being successful.  That is not happening here.

Come on guy.  FIX THIS!

TABS ON BOTTOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BTW:  I rolled back to the previous version so that my userChrome.css will work properly.  So, then, we are placed in the uncomfortable position of either not being able to update, or not being able to work productively.  Hum . . .

[Anonymous]

Well, I used the CSS files recommended by jscher2000 and am semi-happy with the results. Happy that it worked, but dismayed by having to fight to get this simple thing fixed.

[Kenithekid]

G;ad to hear this is working for some people.

Sadly, not here.

I have tried editing the lines and I've tried a few variations of those edited lines such as changing 2 to 100 as others needed... But nothing seems to make any difference. Tabs still at top

[Bockeman]

There is something very dodgy going on with FF113.0.1.  Some users say a particular fix (via userChrome.css) works for them, and others not.

With credit to MrOtherGuy, this userChrome.css worked for me this morning:

/* Hacked from:
https://github.com/MrOtherGuy/firefox-csshacks/tree/master/chrome/tabs_on_bottom_menubar_on_top_patch.css
*/


@import url(chrome/tabs_on_bottom_menubar_on_top_patch_230515.css);
#PersonalToolbar{ order: -1 }

But now no longer works, after several FF restarts and experiments with .css content.

I'd be happy for anyone to challenge me on this, or support my theory.  Along with success for some users, and not others, I surmise that a change in behaviour like this can happen if there is coding problem, memory leak/corruption, or some state stored on HDD/SSD that shouldn't be.

Meanwhile, I have now trimmed down the lines of userChrome.css to just this

#navigator-toolbox{ padding-top: 20px}
#toolbar-menubar{ position: fixed; top: 0px; width: 100% }
#PersonalToolbar{ order: -1 }

which gives me exactly what I had originally desired:

I know next to nothing about .css coding and arrived at these lines by trial and error. (There's a variation on this with the Tab bar below the URL bar, but I don't know how to get this).

[Bockeman]

Can anyone suggest a reason why dropping the chrome/ path prefix from the @import url statements results in an apparently more reliable fix (for tabs at bottom)?

/* Download from:
https://github.com/MrOtherGuy/firefox-csshacks/tree/master/chrome/tabs_on_bottom.css
https://github.com/MrOtherGuy/firefox-csshacks/tree/master/chrome/tabs_on_bottom_menubar_on_top_patch.css
to .../AppData/Roaming/Mozilla/Firefox/Profiles/*.default/chrome
*/

@import url(tabs_on_bottom.css);
@import url(tabs_on_bottom_menubar_on_top_patch.css);
#PersonalToolbar{ order: -1 }

[pweeks]

Try rolling back to the previous version (before the upgrade) so that the old script works.  At some point, the issue will be worked out, and you will be able to upgrade then.  But for now, at least you'll be able to work.

[Kenithekid]

Great Idea!

Where is the rollback option for firefox updates? I did not create a rollback point in windows itself prior to the update.

[pweeks]

Hey Ken,

Looks like my post didn't post.

There is a rollback option in Windows under recovery.  If you haven't designated a save point, you can select one of Windows periodic and automatic save points.  Of course, you have to 1) make sure that the point you choose to restore is as close to the "before Firefox update" as possible, and 2) check to see what other files might be affected.  As an alternative, you can also go to www.majorgeeks.com and download an earlier version in its entirety.

While I hate to use an older version of any software for security reasons, I will occasionally do so when this sort of thing happens to avoid disruptions in my workflow due to UI issues.  I do monitor the Mozilla Connect site so that as soon as the people that are much smarter than I, find the fix, I can update and make the change.

This is but one workaround.  Smarter people may have better solutions or better workarounds that what I've offered you, but it's all I got.

Cheers!

[jscher2000]

---

@pweeks wrote:

...  As an alternative, you can also go to [unofficial download site] and download an earlier version in its entirety.

---

Please only use official downloads. See: https://support.mozilla.org/kb/install-older-version-firefox

As that article mentions, after a profile has been upgraded to the latest installed version, older versions will refuse to work with it and will want to create a new profile. So this method of returning to an earlier version of Firefox is inconvenient.

[Kenithekid]

...so I just discovered.  A lot of work getting re-synched etc.

only to find that my tabs STILL won't move!

Obvious at this point that it's something else.

I currently have the last version of 112 installed and set the option to true to enable the css ability.

I copied the old userChrome.css I was using and the tabs still stay on top...

What does this say?

It's enabled, and using a previously working css file, but it's not moving the tabs below.

Very frustrating. What else can interfere on this level? I don't get it? I tried it on the fresh install before altering anything else and it's not working. Yes, I verified that it's set to true and the userChrome.css has the old options complete -maz lines as before

[jscher2000]

---

@Kenithekid wrote:

I currently have the last version of 112 installed and set the option to true to enable the css ability.

---

I assume you mean you set toolkit.legacyUserProfileCustomizations.stylesheets to true in about:config (either by clicking the toggle button or double-clicking false to switch it to true).

---

I copied the old userChrome.css I was using and the tabs still stay on top...

What does this say?

---

That is puzzling. Could you try restarting Firefox from the Troubleshooting Information page using the button on the upper right labeled "Clear startup cache...".

Since you are working in a new profile, could you double-check the steps in my "How" article to make sure you created the chrome folder in the correct location:

https://www.userchrome.org/how-create-userchrome-css.html

[Kenithekid]

Thanks for sticking with me... What a mess now.

I've verified all the settings are correct as noted above toolkit set to true. Found new profile folder and added Chrome as well as a userChrome.css file in it and placed my old userChrome file there... Still on 112 and still the tabs are not moving back to the bottom... They're also too tall! They used to by small....

Wait! I take it all back! My tabs have suddenly moved to the bottom once again! still with 112 and I'm afraid to update until more can be discovered...

[GrizzlyAK]

At this point, I think the folks at Mozilla are just messing with you! 🤕

[pweeks]

Inconvenient?  Having the tabs on top is inconvenient!

While this has worked for me, I am not necessarily recommending it, but I am putting forth the method that I used to mitigate the problem.  Allow me to say once more that it would not be a problem if the developers didn't make it one.  It's a simple fix, but still they make us suffer!  Why might that be?

While I respect "official" websites enormously, sometimes they simply do not work and I fail to see the reason why, as end users, we should be forced into living with something that 1) can be fixed, and 2) can be avoided, if not fixed.

The Windows point restore worked for me brilliantly, and I've disabled auto update.  I am hating Firefox more and more as the days go by and recommending it less and less to friends and colleagues.  I see it circling the drain in the very near future, but for developing nations.

So, then, why don't the developers just fix the problem???  Can you tell me that, please??

[jscher2000]

---

@pweeks wrote:

So, then, why don't the developers just fix the problem???  Can you tell me that, please??

---

Mozilla has a long-term project to root out proprietary elements in the UI and replace them with standard HTML and CSS. Normally, those updates do not have a big effect on custom style rules, but in this case they did.

Mozilla is not going to stop updating the UI. Possibly breaking custom style rules is not a factor because userChrome.css is not officially supported. It is the Firefox community (especially on r/FirefoxCSS) that keeps it relevant. For the past five and half years, the CSS wizards have come up with ingenious solutions time and again. Fingers crossed that they don't give up.

Obviously this is NOT the ideal situation, but that is where we are.

I recently posted some background/history about the tab bar location in another thread: https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/discussions/what-is-the-right-position-for-toolbars/m-p/32214/highlig...

[Kenithekid]

OK... Finally got things all fixed here too.

Many thanks to everyone for sticking with me. I finally discovered that somehow (my fault at some point) my profile folder shortcut got pointed to a non-used onedrive backup that microsoft forced on me during my win10 install.

I had moved back to 112 and still had the problem and deeper investigation turned this up. Once discovered, 112 again had tabs on bottom and just a few minutes ago, I allowed the 113.0.1 update, then edited my useChrome file myself (the two simple lines) and though ReloadCSS didn't catch it, a restart of Firefox 113 and my tabs are on bottom!

Ta-Da!

Thanks to all!

[GrizzlyAK]

This CSS Code is the only thing that worked for me to move my tabs back to the bottom:

https://www.codehaven.co.uk/firefox/firefox-113-2023-tabs-on-top-bottom-not-working-fixed-again/

[BalloonPark]

Thank you so much.I was trying all the fixes in this thread and the code on this website is the only one that worked how I like it:

1. Menu

2. Address

3. Bookmarks

4. Tabs

I was getting my laptop ready for travel and remembered to disable Firefox from updating so I don't have to deal with this on my trip. I closed FF on version 112 something and edited the registry. However when I restarted FF had updated to 113.0.2.

Praise the css coders who keep me sane 🙏

[Rick216]

Brilliant, and so simple.  While I might have eventually got some of the css code suggested elsewhere to work (after tweaking), this was unbelievably clear and simple -- just replacing two small bits of code.  I have Firefox esr, which just updated from Firefox 102 to 115 as its base, so presumably I won't have to deal with any more "surprises" until esr switches to a new version as its base in about a year (though it provides regular security-only updates in the interim).

[drrodgers]

In a browser with so many easy customisations, one has to assume that this is deliberate.

Firefox's programmers will be aware that users want this, as many of us have been asking for it for many, many, years.

I have just edited my registry to prevent further Firefox auto-updates, as it's an annoying loss of time every time I have to fix Firefox's belligerence.

[Bockeman]

@Kenithekid   I've seen your response via email, but it does not seem to have got through to be visible here.
(I don't know whether that is a moderator delay, or that you deliberately sent to just me.)

I see so many others managing to fix this. I have tried using the same changes here but nothing I do seems to move the tabs back to the bottom.

What could be so different on my system as to stop the css from functioning the same way?

To minimize such, I even went so far as to return all graphics settings on the machine to the original defaults and still the problem persists.

It was working fine here with userChrome.css for a reasonaly long time. It's really uncomfortable that it's removed again.

Any ideas what else may be restricting the action here would be greatly appreciated...

---

I think the main reason why this broke for me was because FF are in the process of making the .css syntax more conformant (they've been chipping away at this for years and apparently still have more to do).  Specifically this syntax:

 -moz-box-ordinal-group: 2;

is now replaced by this:

order: 2;

So 1) have you updated your css scripts, or if like me .css is a foreign language, download again:

/* Download from:
https://github.com/MrOtherGuy/firefox-csshacks/tree/master/chrome/tabs_on_bottom.css
https://github.com/MrOtherGuy/firefox-csshacks/tree/master/chrome/tabs_on_bottom_menubar_on_top_patch.css
to .../AppData/Roaming/Mozilla/Firefox/Profiles/*.default/chrome
*/

 Next, I got stuck by a subtle change in behaviour regarding the import url paths.  I previously had "chrome/" in the path (and that used to work).  I surmise this could be due a change in where is the root for these relative paths.  However, I got very confused whilst debugging this: things working at one point, and then not later in the same day.  Thus I cannot even be sure that this was not an aberration on my part.

So 2) make sure your relative paths are relative to where your userChrome.css sits:

@import url(tabs_on_bottom.css);
@import url(tabs_on_bottom_menubar_on_top_patch.css);
#PersonalToolbar{ order: -1 }

[Bockeman]

... not wishing to antagonise the moderators, I see that @Kenithekid 's reply got stuck in a reply to a reply higher up this now very long discussion.  That's hard to spot!

[argaz]

Fortunately for us, those id..s who are not able to give us back the most loved Firefox feature, haven't spoiled much this time.

We only need to find and replace two lines in userChrome.css ->

-moz-box-ordinal-group: 2;  Replace with -> order: 2;

-moz-box-orient: vertical  Replace with -> flex-direction: column;

[EliseB]

My husband and I are with you on this ! Do not swap positions of Menu Bar and Bookmark Toolbar. We've been away so just now having time to comment. We feel exactly as other commenters do and hope that there are many other shout outs about this. If nothing changes, we'll be looking for another browser too. We don't have time to spend accommodating some designer's (s) opinion on what is best and will not get over this or just get used to it!

[aivas1701]

FireFox used to be a useful browser. Now, to use it, you have to be a userChrome.css programmer.

I really do not have time to learn and re-learn userChrome.css over and over whenever FF gets a wild hair.

FF 113 moved my Find Toolbar, deleted (or overwrote) the second line of my Bookmark Toolbar, created a completely black bar, and removed Tabs (i.e. there are none, no history, nothing.

Thank you FireFox. Hello Chrome.

[EliseB]

Aivas1701, my spouse found a cure for it here: https://www.codehaven.co.uk/firefox/firefox-113-2023-tabs-on-top-bottom-not-working-fixed-again/
So, we're back to Firefox for now. But, this is getting tiresome. As with another person's input, we do not understand why they don't just make this change be an option instead of something that we have to hunt for a solution for every time.

[aivas1701]

Thank you, EliseB.

My problem is that I have NO tabs. While I am OK with tabs on top, I would like to get some tabs so I can work.

As to the suggested "fix", I have neither   -moz-box-ordinal-group: 2;    nor   -moz-box-orient: vertical    so I can't do the replacements.

Thank you anyway.

I think my son uses Chrome, Maybe he can give me a personalized tutorial.

[aivas1701]

Quick update. I figured out how to fix all the problems: Tabs, Find Toolbar, truncated Bookmark Toolbar, black bar, etc. I i did everything on my own (except the Find Toolbar at the bottom instead of the top). No help from Mozilla/Firefox, who caused the problem.

Good luck with the problems on your end.

TX

Firefox is "safe". at least until their next "update" (sic).

[EliseB]

Great job, Aivas1791! I'm copying your instructions to keep in case we have to go through this again on the chance that it would work again.

MA

[aivas1701]

In my case (for my totally screwed-up) userChrome.css file, I copied the entire "working" Profile file from another machine, made the appropriate adjustments then changed the entry for Bookmark Toolbar per a suggestion by another poster.

[EliseB]

Okay. Thanks, Aivas1701.

[mm2by2]

Amen and amen!

I also am running a css script for ff 74, win 7 64. And have blocked updates as they will break the script.  

I miss "tabsmixplus" addon.

[jscher2000]

Firefox 74! I'm sure you know that Mozilla disclosed security vulnerabilities in that product, so it is best that you update. Obviously there have been a ton of changes since then, but finding an updated set of CSS rules to move the tab bar is a well trodden path. For example:

• https://www.reddit.com/r/FirefoxCSS/ for personal assistance
• https://github.com/MrOtherGuy/firefox-csshacks/blob/master/chrome/tabs_on_bottom.css (see notes about possible additional or different rules to use in specific scenarios)

You could start a new Discussion thread about the features of Tab Mix Plus that you haven't been able to replace with either built-in features or newer add-ons.

[pweeks]

It amazes me, the number of users that have commented and raged over the "tabs on bottom" issue, and how it has fallen on deaf ears.  It is such a simple fix, and yet developers are unwilling to give users that option.

This leads me to believe that either Mozilla has been infiltrated by the competition who are working to destroy Firefox, or that Mozilla developers are simply in a power struggle with their core users. 

Alternatively,  there may be  incorrigible aliens involved that cannot be exterminated.

Whatever the reason,  it does not bode well for the lifespan of Mozilla.

What a shame that Firefox continues to lose users over something so small to developers,  yet on the level of a paradigm shift for users. 

Whatever come their way will be well deserved, based on their inability to listen to their customers. 

BTW:   The forum on  improving mozilla for online shopping is an absolute waste of time.   Those folks don't use computers, they use telephones and tablets, and by extension Google.

[aivas1701]

My userChrome.css file has been working to keep my tabs, toolbars, colors, etc where I want them since 06/01/2023. I keep my fingers crossed. Every time there is an update, I worry I will have to "fix" it.

[aivas1701]

My userChrome.css file has been working to keep my tabs, toolbars, colors, etc where I want them since 06/01/2023. I keep my fingers crossed. Every time there is an update, I worry I will have to "fix" it.

[Rick216]

Switch to Firefox esr and you won't have to worry about it until October 1, 2024, as esr will remain Firefox 115-based until then.  But it still provides regular security updates.  If your userChrome.css works with "regular" Firefox 115, it will work the same with 115esr.

[Locutus]

I find Jorge Villalobos full of it. Something like Tabs at the bottom isn't an actional item? let's be real here ANY browser tweak idea are actionable ideas.

[Agentvirtuel]

hello

Waterfox
Tab bar position? apparently it's possible
https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/discussions/the-more-you-push-for-updates-the-least-i-will-comply/m-p...
So why can't Firefox do it?